9/19
Didn't have much time tonight (went straight from work to barn then home to change and go to a high school football game. I wanted to see the band play, and it was very cool, although rather strange to be in the stands instead of on the field or the podium!). Longed her over one low cavaletto.
I liked the way she focused on it as soon as she came into the arena. Warmed up without it, then did some walk and trot over it. Don't know if she's ever been asked to do cavaletti before? She seems to want to jump it, especially at the trot. On the plus side, when she did jump it from the trot, she looked very elegant and graceful, can't wait until we start jumping her.
After a few passes she figured it out, walked and trotted over it just fine. Didn't canter her over it because Mom rode her too. She's doing wonderfully at the walk, but the tucking-behind-vertical/leaning on the bit is still there at the trot. Seems to respond well to pushing her forward into a steady outside rein, lots of loops/serpentines/circles to keep her body moving, and simply ignoring the head-fussing and steadily resisting the pulling when there is some.
Ugh, can't wait until I can get on and do some serious schooling at the trot!
9/20
Spent some time with a little groundwork, working with feet, and a little massage. She seemed to enjoy it. Considering doing a little clicker work with her back feet. Practiced pulling her forelegs out forward and holding them, like a hoof stand would -- she was totally fine with it. She should be fine for that part of her trim, then, which is nice.
Then brought her in to longe over a cavaletto again. Walk and trot was much better over it, so after a bit I cantered her over it both directions. Beautiful, she was really just lovely. Nailed the distance every single time -- she is going to be a dream to canter fences. She just looked elegant, it was really nice.
I like this horse :)
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9 comments:
She sounds like a fabulous girl. It's almost too bad that you'll have to sell her.
Watch it, Many. Sounds like she's slowly but surely making a place for herself!
The more I hear about your Pandora, the more she reminds me of a horse I had for reschooling once, who came with a "bucking over fences issue" (actually turned out to have had a napping, rearing AND refusing issue as well). Not that I think that Pandora will necessarily show any of that, not trying to be doom&gloom!
What I mean is that this lad also was a sensitive, eager-to-please soul, who had had a very light mouth, and I quickly discovered had back/hip issues.
During the rehab process we worked out that the chain of events most likely went:
* Horse puts back out
* Horse in pain, carries on jumping, but starts rushing
* Stronger bit installed, temporarily stops rushing
* Pain gets worse, rushes again
* Rider ups the ante with hands / bit
* Horse stops wanting to go forward
* Rider ups ante with forward aids
* Horse & rider now stuck in vicious circle
There you have the set up for classic pain rearer. Can't go foward as desired, because it hurts, can't stop because it hurts = only way out is up.
It took a while to retrain him, but I think he was a lot worse off than your Pandora. He was a less forgiving type of horse too.
How do you like the clicker training? I taught clicker training for obedience classes for dogs when I trained for a living, but I've always looked at it askance for horses, despite what I've read about animal psychology anyways. How do you reward Pandora when you do "click" her?
I've read about Bob Bailey's clicker training camp where they use chickens. I know people who've gone to said camp and I'd love to go myself. I get the principals behind it obviously as I've used it myself, but it's the rewarding the horse without creating another problem that I get stumped on. With dogs, I pair a high value reward with the click. With horses, it seems that the reward options are limited. With my very tall arab in the past, I didn't give him treats from my hand as it turned him into a begger and a mugger. Petting wasn't reward enough either. So, what do you do and how do you do it?
I am indeed starting to truly like her -- but then again, I kind of feel like the horse and I need to have somewhat of a bond to progress quickly :) It will probably be an option to keep her if I truly feel that it's the right thing, but I also rationally understand that there are many, many horses out there who, like Pandora, are undervalued but have the intelligence and sweet attitudes to truly do well.
FD, to be honest, that's exactly the kind of situation that I ponder happened to Pandora. She is so sensitive and eager to please, but whenever I discipline her sharply, she tends to begin panicking. Add that to the fact that I believe she was in pain from being out-of-whack physically, and I'm not surprised at all that she reared. Thus, I figure that if I build her confidence, teach her to trust that I will not harm her even when I am giving a correction, and keep her pain-free, we will have no issues. How did this horse of yours turn out? Did he get over the problems?
ORSunshine, here is what I do and have done with horses.
I'm not too concerned about the high-value quality of my rewards. I give them either small handfuls of their normal grain (Ultium, in this case) or small pieces of treats they enjoy (usually berry or apple-flavored, small pieces of treat). I don't really go to the effort of cutting up small pieces of apple or carrot. If I want to go super-high-value, I'll give a peppermint. Regardless of what they're given, I find that they're so happy to receive a treat (since most of what they eat is hay, and grain at dinnertime is 'special' as clearly shown by their excitement when they get fed) that it works perfectly fine for clicker training.
I have never had a big problem with mugging and begging. I don't feed treats often except when I'm clicker-training. If they mug, they either get ignored, or constant low-level irritation to their face (I rub the muzzle area vigorously every time it's in my space, which usually drives them crazy, and I will insist on doing it for far longer than they're comfortable with). Pretty soon they learn to keep their face the heck out of my space.
I also work on it with clicker training -- it's fairly common. As one of the skills you develop, you click only when they move their head away from you. So, you stand next to their head and wait. When they turn their head away to look at something else or because they're bored, you click, and feed them the treat with your arm extended out away from you. They get the treat, are excited, and therefore put their face in your space again; you ignore until they turn away, then click again. Pretty quickly they realize that they get treats when they move away. It's quite cute when they're hovering with their head several feet away but they've got their eyes rolled over as far as they can to look and see when they're getting their treat!
Another method of doing the same thing is teaching targeting -- it gets them to focus their muzzle on something other than you, and they learn that the target, not you, is the treat-button.
That being said, what I will do with Pandora's hooves is pretty basic. I may or may not teach her to target first, just to grasp the basic concept of clicker training. I'll just c/t for the most basic response first and gradually increase demands then decrease frequency of rewards.
To conclude this novel -- I tend to use clicker-training sparingly. I should probably use it more, since both mares are highly food-motivated, and you can see the gears turning in McKinna's head when we're working with the clicker. With Pandora, I feel it'll be very successful with hoof work because it will create a pleasant, positive-feedback loop situation and firmly entrench in her mind the idea that holding her feet calmly is an action that gets her consistently rewarded.
I may do a post about clicker training sometime on my main blog. I've got a lot of thoughts stewing about it.
Ok, so same as I do with dogs. My trainer growing up used a grain reward with her Arab stallion. However, specifically with the VTA, I could NOT do that as he was a mugger to the *nth degree. A spoiled and pampered baby used to getting all the loves and cuddles and treats he wanted before I had him. Respecting space wasn't his forte. I would often yell at him, "I AM NOT A TREE!" He was better before I sold him, though I wouldn't be willing to c/t with him because of his pushy mugger attitude.
Hmm, I could definitely see how clicker training a horse with that attitude wouldn't work so well.
In my case I'd probably just not clicker train him :) Like I said, I use clicker training sparingly, so it'd work fine for me. The whole reason I'm going to do it with Pandora is that she's food-motivated but not pushy, and I have a specific situation for which she needs to build confidence and happy feelings.
Solitaire was pretty damaged by the time he came through my yard tbh - I think from what I recall of Pandora's backstory, that she's only really had the one incident of seriously rearing/spazzing out?
He wasn't like that. He was a talented higher end Novice eventer who'd been placed and had points. He'd started refusing, and then napping and was sold. With that owner he then progressed in his issues, beginning to rear and eventually culminating in going over with her and breaking her leg.
He was then sold again dirt cheap and came to me as a fixer-up for resale.
By this point, he had significant muscle trauma and wastage - in my initial eval on the lunge I picked up on him being unlevel and told his new owner that I wouldn't work with him till he'd seen a chiro & vet. He was mentally a mess by now too; if I so much as stuck my elbow out while lunging him he took off like a rocket.
Initially, he had chiro & massage done and was turned away. Fortunately, the person who'd bought him had land and some babies to turn him out with, and wasn't in a hurry. I didn't see him again for about 8 months, but he had monthly physio/chiro sessions, but nothing else was done with him.
When he came back, he was a lot more chilled, but still very nervy.
I basically started from scratch with him, like a baby. Because he was such a mess mentally, I did a lot of work with him out hacking as he didn't tense up in the same way as he did when in the arena.
The biggest challenge really was to get him going truly forward and through, and then to accept the bit. I suspect he'd been ridden in draw reins at some point (as a training tool I consign them to hell when used by the inexpert) as he was severely tense through his neck, just above his withers.
I never got rid of the suck back reflex entirely - you basically had to set him up for rein aids using your leg and seat - particularly at speed. It was like if you prepared him for the rein cue, he would accept it, but catch him by surprise and he would automatically flinch.
He did rehab quite well in the end, the owner sold him for a profit (even with my cut!) and he went on to be a hunter and to event again. However, he was never entirely what I would consider a "safe" horse because of that flinch reflex; as far as I know, he never had further issues, but I would never have put an inexpert rider on him.
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